After a pleasant evening with my brother Knights of Columbus, I came home to the following reply to my post below showing the Marie Stopes ad for abortion services on English T.V. They must be catching hell for this if they have people trolling the internet to do damage control. The following answer speaks for itself. No need for me to parse it out.
All I’ll say is that this is a tragic come-down for the nation that gave us St. Thomas More, Sir Isaac Newton, Charles Darwin, Literary Giants such as William Shakespeare, Chaucer, Milton, Lord Alfred Tennyson, The Brownings, Thomas Hardy, John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, Carlotte, Emily and Anne Bronte, Jane Austen, William Blake, Percy Bysshe Shelley, Lord Byron, G.K Chesterton, John Donne, J.R.R. Tolkein, George Eliot, Rudyard Kipling, Winston Churchill, and a host of other giants too numerous to list in a post (though it would be great for people to add their own favorites).
Evil always trips itself up. Consider this following news story quote in light of the email I received from this same organization.
” ‘The ad is not about abortion,’ Julie Douglas, marketing manager of Marie Stopes told Fox News, ‘It doesn’t mention abortion. It’s about unplanned pregnancy.’ “
From Marie Stopes:
2010/05/27 at 11:57 PM
At Marie Stopes International we always support a woman’s choice to continue with her pregnancy or have an abortion. If a woman feels that an abortion is in her or her family’s best interests, then she should have access to safe, supportive and non-judgmental advice and help form an expert clinic. No one else should pressure her into either continuing with the pregnancy or having an abortion.
The earlier a woman decides on abortion, the more options are available to her, and the easier and safer it is to perform the abortion.
Abortion is available for free on the National Health Service, but waiting periods vary according to area, and this is a time when days may be crucial. Also, not all women resident in the UK are eligible for NHS abortions: women visiting from other countries, or women living in Northern Ireland, are required to go private.
These adverts will enable women who think or know they may be pregnant, and are considering abortion, to find out where they can get one.
I see you are an American blogger. You may not be aware that in the UK, many public services and charities, including health charities, advertise on TV: TV ads are by no means exclusive to “consumer services”. For example, prior to our recent General Election, the Electoral Commission ran ads to let people know how they could find out if they were registered to vote, and where they could register, and when the deadline was. Doing so did not mean the right to vote was equated to “pizza delivery, internet service, and appliance repair”: those ads were providing the general public with information both useful and necessary. So with our ads.
Marie Stopes International makes clear to all patients who are eligible for NHS treatment that abortion and contraception services are free on the NHS: but all women, anywhere, have a right to choose whether or not to have an abortion. No one else can make this decision for her.
Some of the money from the fees people pay in the UK Marie Stopes centres goes towards supporting the work Marie Stopes International does overseas.
In 2008 alone, MSI provided over six million people in 42 countries with high quality health services, including family planning; safe abortion & post-abortion care; maternal & child health care including safe delivery and obstetrics; diagnosis & treatment of sexually transmitted infections; and HIV/AIDS prevention. Millions of people die unnecessarily each year from health conditions that could be prevented or treated at low cost because they do not have access to basic sexual and reproductive health services. Marie Stopes International is working to change that.
“They must be catching hell for this if they have people trolling the internet to do damage control.”
!!!! I thought I made a pleasant, civil, and informative response to your post – and you accuse me of “trolling”?
How rude.
No one has the right to end another life for their personal convenience. This is a falsehood of the most offensive sort. It would be no different to allow me to shoot my neighbor because I like his house better than mine. The fact that this is legal in the UK, the U.S. and many other countries is a sign of the moral depravity of the current age, NOT social progress.
Doctor, looks like you hit a nerve. If not why would MSI be interested in responding to your post? I see that MSI does not include in their offered services helping women to keep their babies.
MS,
If you have a dictionary handy, you may look up the word trolling for all of its other meanings. My reference was pretty plain in its analogy to a fisherman trolling.
Yes, your response was quite pleasant, civil, and most informative, for which I thank you. I would invite you to broaden your linguistic horizons sufficiently so as not to shoot from the hip as you have done here in categorizing others as rude for a comment that was in no way meant to accuse you of being a troll. I would also be remiss if I did not invite you to walk away from being an apologist for the tearing apart of babies in what ought to be the safety and sanctity of their mother’s wombs.
Yours is the very worst cause for which humans have ever worked. It is a dark and despair-filled philosophy, utterly devoid of charity or hope. Come and work for a crisis pregnancy center, where you can offer women real hope and options, instead of validating the coercion of family and boyfriends that drives so many of these women to resignation. CPC’s offer real choices, as they offer viable options, hope, and love.
Listen for yourself to a parade of post-abortive women about choice:
http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org/
And above all, know that God stands ready to welcome you back whenever you’ve had enough of the bloodshed.
God Bless.
Great observation Rev.
Semper Fi
If not why would MSI be interested in responding to your post?
Rev, to clarify this – I don’t work for Marie Stopes and am not here as an official spokesperson but as an enthusiastic supporter of their valueable work.
I see that MSI does not include in their offered services helping women to keep their babies.
Perhaps both you (and Gerard!) should read more carefully? Once again, rebolded for emphasis:
“In 2008 alone, MSI provided over six million people in 42 countries with high quality health services, including family planning; safe abortion & post-abortion care; maternal & child health care including safe delivery and obstetrics; diagnosis & treatment of sexually transmitted infections; and HIV/AIDS prevention. ”
Marie Stopes International does indeed help women keep their babies. But each woman must have the right to decide for herself whether or not she wants to have a baby.
Everyone agrees that a woman (and) man should have the choice whether to have a baby or not. But once the baby is in the womb that choice has already been made! Then the woman is a mother. Either of a live or dead baby. Look at the website Dr Nadal suggested. In each heart rending story the abortion ruined the woman’s life. MSI look at the effects of your “care”! By the artwork one knows the artist. Abortion destroys lives of mother and baby! Listen to the victims.
Listen to the victims.
I already have – those who can still speak and the testimony of the dead. Two hundred thousand women die each year for lack of proper health care.
Helping women give birth safely and helping women to decide for themselves how large they want their families to be, is vitally important work.
Reading back through Doctor Nadal’s journal, it’s clear that helping women is not on his agenda, though. I apologise, if that’s necessary, for supposing he would care.
Marie Stopes, as you say, MSI provides maternal and child-health care – but how often does it persuade a woman to keep a baby she said she didn’t want – and then help and support her after the birth? That is the point about the Crisis Pregnancy Centres. Read Sue Widemark’s comment – perhaps it wasn’t available when you last commented – once pregnant, a woman is a mother, either of a live or a dead baby. Abortion kills babies, and in the place where they should be safest.
You say 200,000 women die each year for lack of proper health care. Compare that to the millions now aborted, many of whom were aborted as a form of contraception. A tiny minority were aborted because the health of the mother was seriously at risk.
There is evidence to show that countries which have the strictest abortion controls, or do not allow abortion at all, also have the lowest levels of maternal mortality for their region and comparable countries.
To Marie Stopes:
The idea that one should assist a women in the “safe” murder of her unborn child is called simply, politely and unequivocally: Accomplice.
The fact that we even have a discussion about abortion as if it were a “humane choice” is reprehensible. But, to conclude that because access to safe obstetric care is offered, Marie Stopes somehow becomes a licit option for women is absurd. This is not their niche in the market, nor do they promote safe births. Here’s a document on what they do promote — apparently they already know what women want: http://www.mariestopes.org/documents/publications/What-Women-Want.pdf
Read the part about counseling the women — there are only recommendations on how to get them to abort.
Thank you, Dr. N for addressing this issue.
Dear Marie Stopes – I had an abortion at 15 and it left me infertile. An issue they failed to tell me would develop later in life as well as other complications. Abortion did not help me! It hurt me!!!! It hurt me physically and emotionally. It saddens me that other women think helping women kill their children is their only choice if they become pregnant. This is just not true! Children are a gift, no matter in what circumstance they were created or the circumstances of the mother/family. The truth about abortion and all it’s complications needs to be told (link to breast cancer, infertility, miscarriages, maternal bonding issues, etc). Pregnancy Centers help young mothers and services are confidential and cost them nothing.
I chose abortion because I was scared (and 15) and didn’t know what to do. I speak publicly about my abortion experience through Silent No More Awareness to share my testimony so that other young women and men will seek help from a Pregnancy Center. You sound dismissive as if our experiences don’t matter or didn’t happen. You cannot compare helping women in general with healthcare to killing their children. Killing one’s child is NOT healthcare. And women do still die from abortion even though it’s legal. Mothers dying from an abortion is not safe! It’s killing two – mother and child! Women around the world need help on a variety of fronts but helping them to kill their children is not one of them.
I’m sorry for the choice I made at such a young age! I could have put the child up for adoption and met this child later in life. But I limited any future opportunities for meeting my child by making my choice. I was not counseled at all in any manner.
The bottom line is chastity and purity in relationships and we need to help young women and men be able to love each other without having sex – because sex is NOT love (an that can be a reality – it’s a choice as well to have or not have sex before marriage). Young people can be pure in their relationships. It can be challenging but it is possible. We sell young people short by handing them contraceptives and saying essentially “we know you don’t have any self-control, so here you go.” It’s a death sentence, especially with STDs out there. Pregnancy is the least of their problems. Emotional issues arise in young people who have had sexual encounters before marriage and it impacts their marriage. Young people need to learn what love and relationships really are. While my family and local church may have failed me, I am still responsible for my actions. I am sorry for what I did and have been forgiven by Jesus Christ.
I now volunteer at a Pregnancy Center to help women with a life affirming choice and yes, we do give them all their choices (even about abortion), but we tell them the truth about abortion, adoption (the forgotten option), state aid if needed, referral for doctors, housing if needed, diapers, clothing, etc. We help the whole person – even parenting classes and relationship classes. Again, the services, even ultrasounds, are provided at no charge.
I pray Marie Stopes, Planned Parenthood and other organizations that promote abortion will truly see and hear the pain as well as the emotional, physical and relationship issues that abortion causes. I pray you will listen to our testimonies again at http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org.
“Marie Stopes International does indeed help women keep their babies. But each woman must have the right to decide for herself whether or not she wants to have a baby.”
EXACTLY. But that decision is made BEFORE becoming pregnant.
“Two hundred thousand women die each year for lack of proper health care.”
ah, but what is “health care”? Most of these women are not looking for your version of health care. Most women would carry their babies to term if they received the help they NEEDED. Abortion is NOT health care, for it always kills one of the patients.
Great post Gerard. It seems to me that abortion has become the norm for unwanted pregnancies and that adoption is scorned by society as a whole. ie: I could never give my baby away….instead these women will kill their baby. This line of reasoning makes no sense.
Nicole, my heart aches for you as I read your testimony. Thank you for speaking out against the greatest lie of our age. Your story should serve as a wake up call to us all to continue the fight to save women and children everywhere from the scourge of abortion. I pray that the Lord will continue the healing work He has begun in you and give you peace. I pray also for the conversion of hearts, that at last this great evil will be unmasked for what it is and that all will turn away from it. Lord, have mercy on us and on our nation!”
“A nation that kills its own children is a nation without hope.” –Pope John Paul II (the Great)
Marie Stopes,
“Rev, to clarify this – I don’t work for Marie Stopes and am not here as an official spokesperson but as an enthusiastic supporter of their valueable work.”
If there is one thing I will not abide on this site it is a liar. In your case, I make an exception. You are not only a liar, but an imposter.
When you logged in to leave comments you left the following as your URL:
mariestopes.org.uk/
and the following as your email:
mariestopes@****** (I’ve intentionally blotted out the last part)
Your IP address shows that you are in London.
So what do the readers here and myself have before us?
Either you truly are connected with MS and got caught in a lie re: the official spokesperson’s denial to Fox News that the ad was about abortion,
or you (as pro-aborts typically do) thought that pro-lifers are mind-numbed robots and thought that you could get away with passing yourself off as a spokesperson for MSI.
Either way, I need to correct myself from my earlier comment.
You are a troll.
I am contacting MSI today and forwarding to them your identifying information if they desire it, and links to your comments here. I’ll let them sort it all out. If you are one of their employees, I’m sure you’ll come in for a correction.
If you are a rogue, I’m sure that they’ll take the necessary corrective action to ensure that you are not out there working at cross-purposes with their organization.
For my part, I do not appreciate being misled into thinking that I am corresponding with an organization whom I believe to be reprehensible, when in fact I may be dealing with a rogue. And you had the temerity to call me rude.
Don’t come back here again. If you do, then I will accept your commentary as an implicit agreement for me to publish your email address so that folks can write to you personally to tell you just how much they despise being misled. Again, your continued presence here will constitute permission for me to release your email address.
With this act of deception (or multiple deceptions-who knows???) you have worn out your welcome here. Again I call upon you to repent and work for life.
Get well soon.
This Marie Stopes ad is completely misleading. This ad leads you to believe that you will get whatever help you need…but what kind of support services do they offer to women who choose to carry to term, beyond obstetrics and delivery?
‘Some of the money from the fees people pay in the UK Marie Stopes centres goes towards supporting the work Marie Stopes International does overseas.
In 2008 alone, MSI provided over six million people in 42 countries with high quality health services, including family planning; safe abortion & post-abortion care; maternal & child health care including safe delivery and obstetrics; diagnosis & treatment of sexually transmitted infections; and HIV/AIDS prevention. Millions of people die unnecessarily each year from health conditions that could be prevented or treated at low cost because they do not have access to basic sexual and reproductive health services. Marie Stopes International is working to change that.”
And that would be in country’s that currently have laws against abortion???
Nicole,
You’re beautiful!!!
🙂
Rachael C.
“This Marie Stopes ad is completely misleading”
That’s their modus operendi.
“….the nation that gave us St. Thomas More, Sir Isaac Newton, Charles Darwin, Literary Giants such as William Shakespeare, Chaucer, Milton, Lord Alfred Tennyson, The Brownings, Thomas Hardy, John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, Carlotte, Emily and Anne Bronte, Jane Austen, William Blake, Percy Bysshe Shelley, Lord Byron, G.K Chesterton, John Donne, J.R.R. Tolkein, George Eliot, Rudyard Kipling, Winston Churchill, and a host of other giants too numerous to list in a post…”
C.S.Lewis?
(But don’t forget, it’s also the nation that gave the world Benny Hill….)
L.,
C.S.Lewis?
(But don’t forget, it’s also the nation that gave the world Benny Hill….)
Absolutely C.S. Lewis. A friend emailed Monty Python….
I agree with all of your observations. Abortion is an evil that tries to block out the image of God from the face of the earth, directly traceable to Saten. My one disagreement would be that the list of giants given to the world by England included someone who can share the blame for abortion worldwide. Charles Darwin led the world in believing man is nothing more that a random “accident” of nature rather than the truth that he is created in the image of God. I find it difficult in giving him any status with the true giants you mentioned.
Marie_Stopes,
Please take your deceptions and paranoia elsewhere. You are no longer welcome here among honest people of good will from both sides of the divide. Your comments will not be published.
Get well soon.
I see I am coming to this late; I thought of two comments for Marie Stopes, but perhaps having been invited to leave, she will miss seeing them.
While Marie Stopes presented the TV adverts as a public service to help women, I wonder if Marie Stopes in England cautions their clients about a 2007 study done at a Marie Stopes clinic in South Africa. Suliman and colleagues found that a “high” rate of women developed Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) after having abortions.
Because of this high rate of PTSD after abortion, Suliman and colleagues decided to compare two different anesthesia methods to see if a change of anesthesia could reduce the occurrence of PTSD. It didn’t.
At 3 months after abortion, 18% of the women had PTSD, and it didn’t make a difference as to which type of anesthesia was used. The authors pointed out that this was almost one in five women being diagnosed with PTSD, and stated this was “high,” which it is.
For sake of comparison, of American men serving in combat in Viet Nam, one large government study showed that about 15% of these men were diagnosed with PTSD, so it looks like having an abortion may be somewhat of the same magnitude of trauma as serving in military combat.
Posttraumatic stress disorder is a very bad disorder to have, because it is a very severe long-lasting type of problem with large studies showing that PTSD often fails to improve even after many years (even decades), and it is strongly associated with many other health problems.
Those who have PTSD often additionally have substance abuse problems, perhaps using drugs and alcohol to control anxiety and help them to sleep, and also have numerous medical issues such as heart problems and arthritis possibly due to the effects of stress on the body.
PTSD is only one of many psychiatric problems seen after abortion, but particularly since Marie Stopes International knows very well about this study involving their own patients, it would certainly be pertinent to give this sort of information to their clients before a final decision is made.
In addition, since the reality is that women do in fact often suffer greatly from their abortions, sometimes for decades, it would be a public service to include information on where to get emotional support after an abortion.
If you are able to access this booklet, Post-Abortion Suffering: A Psychiatrist Looks at the Effects of Abortion, by Martha Shuping, M.D. and Chris Gacek,
http://downloads.frc.org/EF/EF10B09.pdf ,
you will see a listing for British Victims of Abortion who offer a hotline and free counseling and support.
Another excellent program for abortion recovery is Rachel’s Vineyard which is available at multiple locations in UK and Ireland. The international website is at
http://www.rachelsvineyard.org and from there one can find contact information for UK and Ireland.
The Silent No More Awareness Campaign has a UK branch, as noted by Dr. Nadal previously. Another organization, Operation Outcry, is a grassroots organization of women speaking out about their experiences, and their website has the stories of many women and some resources.
“Two hundred thousand women die each year for lack of proper health care.”
Several points regarding maternal maternality. Having attended an international conference focus which included OB/GYNS from North America, South America, and several African nations, key problems do not include access to abortion.
In the vast majority of cases, women who wanted their babies, who are at the point of delivering their baby, find that their village is too far from a hospital and they cannot access emergency care soon enough, if a problem arises.
Another problem in developing nations occurs when these same women need a life-saving blood transfusion at that stage, and again, the distance from the hospital and the lack of transfusion capabilities at some hospitals in developing nations is the problem.
OB/GYNs from many nations are working on creative solutions to getting women to the hospitals earlier so that they do not find themselves facing a twenty mile walk to a hospital after they are already in obstructed labor or hemorrhaging. At that particular stage, abortion services
are not a solution and were not desired in the first place.
The good news is, a new study in Lancet shows that maternal mortality is going down all over the world.
Evidence from around the world indicates this is not because of more abortions, but because of better more timely OB care, especially access to hospitals and skilled birth attendants in a timely fashion.
Sorry, correction (typo). I was speaking of “maternal mortality,” but mistyped, in referring to deaths of women associated with child birth. As I mentioned in previous post, the key issues around the globe seem to be access to hospitals and skilled birth attendants in timely fashion before problems can arise, and also the need for transfusion services when hemorrhaging occurs. These are problems that are receiving attention in developing nations. These are the critically important needs in developing nations.