To a great extent the level of any civilization is the level of its womanhood. When a man loves a woman, he has to become worthy of her. The higher her virtue, the more her character, the more devoted she is to truth, justice, goodness, the more a man has to aspire to be worthy of her. The history of civilization could actually be written in terms of the level of its women.
~Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
Gerry,
You should write a follow up on this, what can men do to fulfill these aspirations, what are the relevant manly virtues, etc. Often times when discussions of manliness comes up, some appeal to local virtues, or ancient virtues (the Homeric virtues, or Athenian virtues) is made; but the more I’ve thought about how to be truly masculine, the more I’ve thought that a significant portion of that question is tradition-culture dependent. Of course, not reducible to those considerations, but certainly some virtues are tradition dependent.
I’m looking for some inventive thoughts on what the authentically virtuous man could look like in our culture, without the account simply sounding antiquarian.
In Christ,
Kevin
–maybe meeting a lay-saint in our contemporary culture would be the answer??
Kevin,
Start by looking in the mirror. You’re one of those men, and I mean that. Then there are the men involved in the pro-life movement such as Chris Bell, Bryan Kemper, Alan Parker, Fr. Pavone, etc…
These guys get it. They get the true value of women, and they are extremely deferential to the voices of the women in the movement. I think of you and Andrew Haines as well. The gentler reader may wish to stop at this point because I’m going to use some mildly salty language.
One of the finest men I’ve ever known is Fr. Luke McCann, my chaplain in college. He had a Ph.D. in Literature from Columbia University, but knew how to reach guys. One day he told a group of us, “Great women don’t marry shits.” I think that greatness cannot be accomplished without habits, which are the basis of all virtue (defined as ‘morally good operative habit’). Great men make decency and goodness, humility, godliness and regard for the weaker all habits.
ZI’ll toss this one around for a while.
God Bless,
Gerry
Replace “women” with “men,” and it works quite well, too:
“When a woman loves a man, she has to become worthy of him. The higher his virtue, the more his character, the more devoted he is to truth, justice, goodness, the more a woman has to aspire to be worthy of him. The history of civilization could actually be written in terms of the level of its (I’ll just say “humans” here, and give both genders equal credit).”
[…] Gerard M. Nadal posted this on his blog […]
“Great women don’t marry shits.”
hmmm.
This implies that if a woman marries a crappy man (and doesn’t know it at the time) she is somehow deficient. I take strong exception to THAT! It is very possible for a man to deceive a woman and show his true colors after the wedding. And some men are very manipulative, preying on a woman’s innocence and lack of experience.
Secondly, I disagree with you L, about a woman having to measure up to a man in terms of character. Women have always been considered the guardians of virtue. The exception being the last half of the 20th century and this century.
I encourage you to read Alice Von Hildebrand especially her The Privilege of Being a Woman. It is extraordinary.
…so when the women in a culture are interested in meaningless hookups and kill the children that result…
Actually, I’ve long thought it was important that we hold men to higher standards than we do–we as society, not we women. How many times do we hear feminists complain about the double standard? But their answer is to lower standards for women, not raise them for men. A young man is just as capable of saying no and being strong in the face of sexual temptation (and other kinds) as a young woman. I am certain of this because my husband was a righteous young man (still is), and I was not a righteous young woman. I don’t think the stereotype that if a woman offers, a man is incapable of refusing, is true or helpful to anyone. In this society, even if young women are not women of virtue who will hold our sons to high standards and insist he respect their dignity and worth, we must raise sons who will respect their dignity and worth and modesty and integrity even when they don’t believe they have any–even when they don’t seem to have any–simply because they are human beings created in the image of God, dearly loved by him. If there are no virtuous woman, there is still and always a virtuous God whom our sons should be taught to love and honor, who is always calling us to greater righteousness. And in addition, a young man must respect his own worth, modesty, and dignity, even if his peers laugh at him for it and call him lame, because he belongs to God and his chastity is as valuable and important as that of a young women. Certainly the call to raise our daughters to know their worth and dignity is as timely as ever, if not more so, and we must guard their chastity and teach them to do the same, and teach them to hold the man that would wed them to a high standard–but we must do the same for our sons, moreso perhaps in this culture where it is not expected and where they will endure ridicule for acting with righteousness in these matters.
I don’t reject the concept that women have always been considered the guardians of virtue — I simply reject that concept that based on this tradition, they should continue to be this.
Jessi above put it quite eloquently: A young man is just as capable of saying no and being strong in the face of sexual temptation (and other kinds) as a young woman is.
Gerry,
Amen, brother! I just read your response to my roommate: he thought it was spot on. Thanks for thinking about this…
Mary Catherine,
You take objection to idea that great women wouldn’t marry a worthless lout (a little less salty, but I’ll come to that). I think that the truth of that statement is worth holding on to, and not for mere convention’s sake.
Consider Elizabeth Bennet in Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice: although initially captivated by Wickham’s charm, his lack of virtue becomes manifest as her relations with him continue. Elizabeth needs to undergo a change in perspective before being capable of seeing the worth of Darcy (despite his own to acknowledge his dependance) over and above Wickham’s projection of noble intent.
If Elizabeth allowed herself to be captivated by Wickham this would have been unwise, imprudent, and intemperate. Perhaps most especially Emotionally Immodest (I would italicize, but I can’t do that on here).
I think this gets to the heart of what Jessi and L have said, as well. Modesty isn’t only sexual, it’s emotional. Offering your heart prior to it being rightfully bestowed as a gift couldn’t be a mark of greatness. The woman who let’s herself be captivated by the stupidity of an ill intentioned suitor, lacks the necessary perspective into his character to make a sufficient evaluation. Her “innocence” sounds more like immaturity, and imprudence: not a virtue.
Basically, it still seems to me that a well formed girl would smell “shit” from a mile away.
Men should have to work to win the heart of their beloved, “lest the treasure gained be considered worthless.”
Best,
Kevin
I think I was immature and imprudent and had no sense of smell…can someone offer me words of wisdom…I have a 4 month old and my husband doesn’t want to be married to me anymore because he wants to date other women and I’m sick over it
Jamie,
Have you sought counseling as a couple?
Jamie, I don’t have any advice for you, but I am so sorry for your situation. May God bless you and your baby whatever your husband may choose. Gerard’s suggestion of counseling is likely a good one; remember too that God is a father to the fatherless, and that He gently leads those that have young (Isaiah 40:11). He will not leave you or your child as orphans. He is there with you.
Jamie, first of all, know that you are not alone — many people have shared the same burden as you, including a “blog friend” of mine: http://moss-place.stblogs.org/archives/2010/09/words-cannot-ex.html
She has linked to accounts of others who have had similar experiences: http://moss-place.stblogs.org/archives/2010/09/so-familiar.html
And she said she found much comfort from this site: http://moss-place.stblogs.org/archives/2010/11/lord-take-my-an.html
I would also recommend, in addition to the counseling suggestion made above, talking to a financial advisor, either a professional or maybe just a trusted family friend, to get a plan in place to support yourself and your child in a worst-case scenario. I have seen many women refuse to do this, saying that “preparing for the worst is what brings it on,” which isn’t true — I bought life insurance for myself, truly hoping my family will never need to collect it, but I value the peace of mind that if something does happen to me, they will be provided for. A financial action plan can give you the foundation on which you can embark on your emotional recovery plan, whatever form it might take.
You and your child deserve better, and I will pray that you find it.