From the comments section on another post:
A reader named Ann left the following comment for me on another post. It is fraught with ambivalence and the attempt to convince herself that she is indeed a good person who promoted love and understanding, while supporting other’s choices in having abortions.
This is not an issue of not having one’s scientific facts straight. This is something very different, a phenomenon I have not seen discussed much within the pro-life movement, but one whose time has come. What is the experience that gives rise to pro-abortion sympathies? It isn’t a black heart in most instances, I believe. To me, it is a broken and wounded heart.
We need to study this scientifically, and begin to address this issue at its root. I’m open to any and all feedback. Here’s Ann, and my response:
Your use of “proabort” is really disturbing. Pro-choice people are not pro-abortion.
I find your views very narrow-minded and disturbing. I believe abortion is not a good thing, but I also believe personal religious beliefs should not dictate laws.
I hope you become more tolerant of the people in this country. I respect pro-life views, but I cannot respect the amount of hate it creates.
I have known a good friend, who comes from a religious background, who was in the saddening situation of teenage pregnancy. She told me that she simply forgot to take her birth control pill one day, just as easy to forget as losing your keys. She hated herself for being another teenage pregnancy statistic, and truly did not want to resort to abortion. She did, though. She knew she did not have the resources to raise a child and she mentally could not handle pregnancy at her age. She says she does not regret her decision. She is no longer with the same young man, and she is now in college. She certainly is not evil.
Ann,
To be pro-choice is to be a supporter of the right of women to contract for the tearing apart of a baby in the safety and sanctity of its mother’s womb. Inasmuch as the very essence of the “choice” in pro-choice is the introduction of abortion as the legalized murder of other human beings under the sanitized euphemism, “abortion,” pro-abort is an apt description of you and your fellow travelers.
That you cannot bring yourself to admit openly and proudly exactly what it is you support should give you pause. I take it that you support the right of a woman to have her baby, as do I. But you also support the right to abortion. That makes you pro-abortion (a pro-abort). Be proud of that, or else get your human decency back on track.
I don’t support such a grisly and barbaric practice. Therefore, I am proudly anti-abortion and pro-life. Since I support a narrower spectrum of what is acceptable and decent, then I suppose that I am indeed, in one sense, “narrow-minded” as you say. On the other hand, my narrower spectrum of accepted human behavior is informed by, and reinforces, a much more expansive and sacred understanding of the nature and dignity of the human person at every stage of their development.
You on the other hand, Ann, have a less sacred view of human nature and dignity, which allows you to support the contract killings of 53 million babies in the womb. Your shallow understanding and value of the human person’s dignity gives rise to your broader spectrum of accepted practices in dispatching the unloved and unwanted among us.
I have found it a near-universal phenomenon that such people have themselves been devalued as human beings, and often brutalized in one manner or another. Nobody who loves themselves with an authentic love born of humility and grace could ever sanction sucking a baby into a sausage grinder. From my armchair psychologist’s perspective, countenancing such actions, championing them as rights, stems from having had one’s dignity similarly treated.
I hope and pray that you resolve the trauma from whatever injustices you have suffered that lead you to champion such a barbaric institution and label those who work to bring that institution down as, “narrow-minded”. If you do, you’ll notice that your love and your understanding of the great dignity of human nature will widen your perspective and deepen your own self-regard immeasurably.
Surrender to Love, Ann.
Soon.
Well said, Dr. Nadal! 🙂
I had worked in crisis pregnancy centers for years, and educated myself on post-abortion syndrome, but it wasn’t till I read the horror of the women whose stories are told in “Forbidden Grief” that I had a true picture of what is ailing those who are so passionately pro-abortion. Its an illness which we must address, despite the abortion industry’s campaign to cover it up.
See it here: http://www.amazon.com/Forbidden-Grief-Unspoken-Pain-Abortion/dp/0964895781
Dr. Nadal, I have been following you since the discussion on incrementalism and very much appreciate your perspective on life issues. With regard to the discussion on Ann, I am able to more fully understand a friend who as a nurse counseled women to have abortions. In spite of serving in several ministries including assisting on the altar in the Anglican church she believes abortion is justified. It is now more clear to me that the rape of my friend some 50 years ago is at the root of her thinking.
Excellent, Dr. Nadal! It always amazes me how the definition of “choice” has been so misconstrued and manipulated to justify their position.
As a pro-life woman, who regrets my abortion 40 years ago, I would like to turn the tables, too. You could say that I, too, am pro-choice–choosing life first and upholding the sanctity of human life in all stages. as well as always choosing other alternatives, i.e., adoption, etc. Personally, the more that I tried to justify my abortion, the problems increased tenfold. All I know is that after my abortion, everything went down hill. Also, I personally know how difficult & challenging it is raising a child as a single parent. I only wish that someone assisted me in referrals to a crisis pregnancy center, taking the “choice” of true love with nine months of loving sacrifice for my unborn child, instead of 40 years of regret.
I agree, Dr. Nadal–if she’s pro-abort then say it and be done with it. You can’t have it both ways.
I think your reply sounds typically arrogant and narrow minded of adamant pro-life supporters who’s faith dictates their opinions and feelings about abortion. I think Ann asked you to address weaknesses in your side’s approach and instead of thoughtful reflection, you respond with arrogance.
-“pro-abort” anon
Another Silent No More Woman
Reading in between the lines of Ann’s post I believe I read a woman’s attempt to readjust her moral compass to fit a morally corrupt “sisterhood”. If she is not post abortive she has not walked into that darkness of the trauma of the abortion procedure itself. There was a sense of “can’t we all just get along” hanging around every one of her justifications. I did sense a kind of decency, however skewed, in her way of loving the women she counsels to abort. i would love to talk with you Ann.
Anon says:
I think your reply sounds typically arrogant and narrow minded of adamant pro-life supporters who’s faith dictates their opinions and feelings about abortion. I think Ann asked you to address weaknesses in your side’s approach and instead of thoughtful reflection, you respond with arrogance.
-”pro-abort” anon
Now with just a very few words changed, let’s see how that reads:
I think your reply sounds typically arrogant and narrow minded of adamant pro-abortion supporters who’s hedonism dictates their opinions and feelings about abortion. I think I asked Ann to address weaknesses in your side’s approach and instead of thoughtful reflection, you respond with arrogance.
-”pro-life” Gerard
Touche’
anon, I can’t speak for other women who went through the abortion ordeal, but I can only give my personal experience. I was not, before, during or shortly thereafter my abortion a religious person; however, I sensed that I did something inherently evil, which led to a downward spiral until I decided to search for the truth and meaning about life. In my search for truth, I found other women, like myself, who went through the same experience and found that there is a growing number of us who were misled by the abortion profiteers, who brainwashed people into believing that an abortion was no different as lancing a boil.
bravo!
Nope, sorry. You still sound like a real jerk.
Anon,
You may disagree all you want, as strenuously as you want, but there is no name-calling here on my blog. That’s the sort of thing that passes for enlightened discourse over at RH Reality check and other pro-abort palaces. Consider this your last warning before you are banned from Coming Home.
I hope you have more to offer than your last post.
Ann’s argument is one I hear constantly from pro-abort. “Well, if abortion is against your private moral or religious beliefs, do not have one. But do not try to impose your beliefs on someone else in so private a matter.”
It is a chilling inconsistency to see pro-abort demanding the right to privacy in the case of abortion. Just as it would be absurd to condone child abuse by parents or domestic violence by a spouse on the grounds that it is a private matter, it is absurd to say that a woman can decide if her child should live or die.
Rather than pondering with arguments for or against an action, abortion is reduced to nothing more than a debate over the right to exercise personal freedom. Pro-abort want to be free to choose and value that freedom over the objective fact that what they are choosing is to kill their babies.
There are two fundamental reasons why I hold steadfastly to the wrongness of abortion. One is the injustice and suffering for the individual child; the other is the all-important matter of moral principle. If we say that abortion is generally wrong, but is justified in some cases, we surrender the principle that one may never kill an innocent to benefit another.
Google pro-life atheists. You will find a solid case can be made against abortion without appealing to religion. In short, just as one doesn’t necessarily need a Bible to condemn robbing banks, so one doesn’t have to use religious faith to condemn the deliberate killing of an innocent human being.
No need to ban to me. I have absolutely no interest in continuing to read your unenlightened garbage : )
As a pro-life person it annoys me to hear the excuse about it being a religious issue. This is not a religious issue even though religious people do support the pro-life view. The issue is the murder of an innocent human being. “Pro-choice” people use that as a club against pro-life people – “it is your narrow-minded religious views that cause you to be against abortion.” They cannot believe that somehow abortion is just plain wrong – whether you are religious or not. Just like stealing and murder are wrong. The death just occurs inside the womb where you don’t hear the victim scream. As an adopted person whose mother considered abortion but decided against it because she knew it was wrong, I really am glad my mother chose life for me.
I must say however, that, even though I’m an admirer of you and your blog, Dr. Nadal, I do wish you would have answered Ann in a more kind way. You did come across as arrogant and uncaring. I know that you are not, BUT I winced as I read your response. It plays right into the hand of the supposedly “compassionate” pro-abortion supporters. A woman responds more to kindness then beating her over the head with your argument. Even if she understands your side, her heart is not in it. I did not see love in your response, which is what I would have wanted to see.
Marcy,
Thank you for your reply, and for your criticism. Keep it coming when you believe I’m in need of it.
I suppose that what we have here is a classic case of how men and women show love. I thought I was being loving by being truthful about a serious flaw in how Ann perceives love and shows it. Tolerating and excusing murder in the name of love isn’t love at all, and I spoke with the heart of a father. In his 1987 commencement address to Duke University, Ted Koppel stated:
“In its purest form, truth is not a polite tap on the shoulder, it is a howling reproach.”
Sometimes a howling reproach is what is necessary, especially when one thinks that another can be considered a good person because they placed their pre-conceived educational timeline before the life of their child, whom they had torn to pieces in order to stay on schedule.
I hear what you are saying Marcy, but I honestly believe that what is really lacking in this nation is more men willing to rear up on their haunches and roar at such emotionally confused and morally bankrupt drivel as Ann’s apologia. Real men, real fathers are nauseated by the very thought of murdering a baby in order to get a college degree and have free time for fun and games instead of rearing the child of one’s womb. My best students in college have been the mothers who focus like laser beams on their studies and then run to take care of their families.
And I honestly think that women need to know how intolerable that is to a mature man.
Dr. Nadal,
In addressing your question about what gives rise to the pro-abortion sympathies, I wanted to add that I too believe that in most instances it isn’t a black heart. My experience with persons who promote love and understanding, while supporting other’s choices in having an abortion is also in the belief that moral neutrality is somehow virtuous.
Unfortunately the use of reasoning to distinguish right from wrong is replace with a distorted idea of morality. This mistaken view of morality (moral neutrality) has often crippled our ability to even discuss the issue of abortion without being accused of being judgmental and creating hate.
To all those who believe Dr. Nadal is insensitive in his reply to Ann, it is important to acknowledge that the truth when clearly stated is seldom easy to accept. In the 70’s there was a video featuring a psychologist who presented a powerful message: in order to change destructive behavour in someone who does not understand courteous approaches, a “significant emotional event” is often required. This “significant emotional event” needs to happen in order to impact the thinking of one who causes harm to others. The video was successfully used for training purposes at civilian and military leadership institutions all across North America. I agree, the statement posted by Dr. Nadal may be stern but it is forth right, sincere and truthful. I believe the statement may be just what Ann and others like her could benefit from: “a significant emotional event.” Nobody should ever apologize for having the courage to express the truth, especially when it comes to saving human life.
Dr Gerard, this is truly beautifully written! Really speaking the truth in love! Thanks!
Ann mixes abortion, religion and laws awkwardly in a sentence and overall in her post. These type of thoughts are mixing awkwardly in her mind and the basic concepts themselves are themselves breaking down. Jennifer’s right, of course. Dr. Nadal was merely attemping to counteract this cerebral entropy, to focus and concentrate the forces of Ann’s mental traction, by evoking a significant emotional event. I attempted the same thing once using a paint brush, a light bulb filament, a hot curling iron and a quart of sour cream. Ann never forgave me for that.
Ambassador Trentino,
Hail, Hail Fredonia, Land of the brave and free! Oh where is Groucho when we need him most!!
Sue, Jennifer, AT,
Thank you. It seems the jury is split about whether I was too harsh. I spoke with some pro-life women whom I trust, and was told that it was kinda forceful and not how a woman would respond.
Guilty as charged! I’m a man, and spoke as one. What Ann wrote was pure proabort boilerplate, with a touch of Rodney King, “Why can’t we all just get along?”
I stand by the comments I made. If they were harsh, they landed much more gently on Ann than the abortionist’s suction curette on one of those babies she supports the right to have torn apart.
“I have known a good friend, who comes from a religious background, who was in the saddening situation of teenage pregnancy. She told me that she simply forgot to take her birth control pill one day, just as easy to forget as losing your keys. She hated herself for being another teenage pregnancy statistic, and truly did not want to resort to abortion. She did, though. She knew she did not have the resources to raise a child and she mentally could not handle pregnancy at her age. She says she does not regret her decision. She is no longer with the same young man, and she is now in college. She certainly is not evil.”
I think this is part of the problem – once again contraception at the root of the abortion problem. A young woman sexually active but unable to cope with the “consequences” of sexual activity – in this case a baby who is then killed. She didn’t have the resources at hand or the mindset to deal with the “unexpected” which in any other time of history would have been the “expected”.
I certainly don’t know all the particulars of her situation but her act in and of itself was an evil one. A baby was murdered purely for convenience. A mother’s soul was harmed. Who or what does she blame? Her contraceptive failure. This is a proabort mindset because she could not see herself giving birth, she could only see herself having an abortion. This proabort mindset may have been pressed upon her or she may have developed it herself due to the cultural preference that exists today. More likely though, it was because she was contracepting. The contraceptive culture leads naturally to the abortion culture because those who contracept are not prepared to accept the possibility of a child. That is why they contracept. The logical next step is abortion.
Prochoice generally means a favoring of abortion as a choice. That is what abortion is synonymous with – choice. When someone in the abortion discussion says they favor choice, they are not referring to the choice to adopt. They are not favoring the choice to birth. They explicitly and implicitly are favoring the choice of abortion.
That is what it means to be a proabort. Perhaps unkind and uncharitable, but the truth hurts sometimes too.😦
The truth does hurt:
The first thing anyone at the clinic where I obtained my abortion asked me was how was I planning to pay.
It is physically painful, and that’s not just my opinion. It feels like someone stabbing you in the abdomen and twisting the knife-Every woman I have spoken with agrees.
The rooms are not even close to sterile-No sterile bedding/gowns/hair covers.
The staff was uncaring and unprofessional, and that’s common if you speak to people who have had abortions.
The pain and regret that any woman I have talked to about their abortions, even the ones who were positive they wanted one, is horrible. It is life changing and everlasting.
There are thousands of couples in the US who have to go abroad to adopt. They are perfectly willing to pay the mother’s expenses, so the argument that “Society wouldn’t care for the babies” is a lie.